Divorce, Money and Mindset: Practical Financial Tools and Emotional Support
Transcript:
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Lottie Kent: Hello, everybody!
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Lottie Kent: Welcome to our webinar! Bear with me 2 seconds. I’m just going to start sharing our slides.
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Lottie Kent: So Hello! And welcome to this webinar on divorce, money, and mindset. It is great to have you here. This is a supportive and practical session for both individuals going through divorce and the professional supporting them.
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Lottie Kent: The purpose of today is to help you understand what needs to be considered financially, reduce fear and overwhelm and highlight, how early clarity or early financial clarity supports smoother solicitor and client relationships.
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Lottie Kent: Just a couple of very, very quick housekeeping points before we do get started. If you can’t hear or see me. Please put a Q&A in the in the Q&A. Box.
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Lottie Kent: and if you have any questions during the session, please do pop them into the Q&A box, and we will answer as many as we can at the end of the session. If we don’t get a chance to get through them all, we will answer them after the webinar.
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Lottie Kent: So let’s get started.
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Lottie Kent: So we are each going to both Claire and I are going to cover some key topics today. So I’m going to go through my key topics. Claire is going to be covering
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Lottie Kent: the emotional side of things, and then Claire and I are going to do a joint session about bridging the gap and looking at a joined up support.
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Lottie Kent: So a quick intro to myself for those of you that don’t know me. I am an award, winning, chartered financial planner and also a resolution accredited divorce specialist.
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Lottie Kent: I specialise in helping women going through the divorce process feel more confident about their financial future.
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Lottie Kent: So let’s jump in.
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Lottie Kent: As we all know, clients are often overwhelmed, and these fears are completely normal, especially for those who haven’t managed the finances themselves throughout their marriage. I suppose financial experts job is to bring calm structure and clarity.
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Lottie Kent: We’ll start by looking at the financial side where people get stuck, what’s often missed, and how early clarity helps both clients and solicitors.
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Lottie Kent: So what people fear and why, that’s normal. So many people come into this process feeling completely out of their depth financially. Common fears would include making a financial mistake. They live to regret,
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Lottie Kent: agreeing to a settlement just to get it over with, running out of money,
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Lottie Kent: losing their home, or not being able to afford it in the future.
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Lottie Kent: And these fears are really valid, especially for those who haven’t been the financial decision maker in the relationship.
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Lottie Kent: So a financial expert can help normalise these fears and provide a calm space to work through them.
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Lottie Kent: It’s about replacing panic with clarity, and we slow down the whole process, helping clients look at the real numbers and begin to make decisions based on logic rather than emotion.
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Lottie Kent: So some things that people often can get wrong and some common missteps to avoid so rushing in to settle or making emotional, emotionally driven decisions, often backfires, for example, giving up pension rights to keep the family home, only to find they can’t afford to live in it.
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Lottie Kent: taking advice from friends who had a completely different financial setup.
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Lottie Kent: or believing that a fair settlement means splitting everything 50 50 without understanding its value or its impact.
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Lottie Kent: A financial expert helps clients ask the right questions, understand their position and look at options with a clear head. So, most importantly, we bring structure to what feels like chaos, and this helps both the client and the solicitor avoid costly detours later.
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Lottie Kent: And this is where we’re going to get really practical. So these are the pillars I’m going to walk you through today. Pensions, cash, flow.
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Lottie Kent: asset, division, and future planning.
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Lottie Kent: Pensions are often misunderstood. I think we all know that, and this is where value can be lost if not addressed early, especially for solicitors working with public sector schemes.
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Lottie Kent: So pensions are often one of the largest and most misunderstood assets.
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Lottie Kent: Many clients are unaware that 50% of the income post retirement is not the same as 50% of the value now, especially, or particularly with defined benefit pension schemes.
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Lottie Kent: There are 2 main types of pension defined benefit and defined contribution defined benefit, often called DB, Is a type of pension that gives you a guaranteed income for life based on your salary.
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Lottie Kent: And how long you have worked.
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Lottie Kent: It’s common in the public sector like teachers or NHS staff, and the amount you get doesn’t depend on the stock market. So it’s very stable and secure. It usually also includes benefits for a spouse, if you were to pass away
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Lottie Kent: Defined contribution pensions are different. This is a pension pot that you and often your employer, pay into over time, and this money is invested so it can grow. It can also go up and down.
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Lottie Kent: At retirement, you decide how to take the money, whether it be as lump sums, flexible income, or buying a guaranteed income via an annuity.
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Lottie Kent: You have more control. You also have more responsibility, and it does not have the same level of guarantee as a defined benefit pension
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Lottie Kent: When dealing with defined benefit pensions on divorce, there are several key things to watch out for from both a legal and a financial planning perspective.
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Lottie Kent: so number one, crash equivalent , the cash equivalent transfer value. The CETV, as it’s often called, can be, can be misleading.
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Lottie Kent: The CETV may understate the true value of the pension benefits, especially with public sector schemes like the NHS or Teachers pensions.
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Lottie Kent: It often doesn’t reflect the cost of securing the same income privately, and this can lead to unfair settlements. If not properly analysed.
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Lottie Kent: You may need an expert report. So PODE report, which is a pension on divorce expert report. In many cases, especially where the pensions are large or complex. A specialist, actuary or PODE report should provide a pension sharing report.
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Lottie Kent: And this this shows you how to fairly split pensions and achieve equality of income in retirement, and that it’s not just equality of capital value.
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Lottie Kent: The next point is equalising capital does not equal equalising income.
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Lottie Kent: A 50 50 split of a CETV, so of a value may not result in a fair or equal retirement income, especially if one has other assets or one has done, had a longer career break.
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Lottie Kent: On the other side, then defined contribution pensions are generally more straightforward than defined benefit pensions, however, there are still some really important things to watch out for during divorce, and some of these are often missed and have a big impact on fairness and financial future security
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Lottie Kent: so hidden guarantees or special features. So some older defined contribution pensions, especially pre 2,000 s. May include what we call a GAR – a guaranteed annuity rate which could provide a much better income retirement, sorry retirement income, than today’s market rates, so these can significantly boost pensions true value. So be cautious when relying solely on the current value, or the CETV
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Lottie Kent: with profits funds. So, some defined contribution. Pensions are invested in with profits, funds which might include bonuses or market value adjustments.
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Lottie Kent: These can distort the value available at the point of divorce, and could be reduced if cashed in early
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Lottie Kent: charges and access rules. So pensions can have different levels of charges, and some older contracts may have exit penalties or limited investment choices
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Lottie Kent: also. Not all defined contribution pensions allow flexible access, especially older plans, and some may require a transfer to be able to access that money via flexible drawdown.
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Lottie Kent: It’s free cash. It’s free. Cash isn’t always 25%. If part of the pension includes tax free cash, ie.
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Lottie Kent: Anything over 25%. This benefit might be lost if the pension is shared or moved, reducing future flexibility.
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Lottie Kent: The other thing is investment, risk and retirement timing. The value is market dependent. So timing matters, divorce settlements, relying on current values
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Lottie Kent: might need to factor in volatility
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Lottie Kent: and a share of a defined contribution pension isn’t a guaranteed income unless an annuity is purchased later.
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Lottie Kent: So a best practice point, ask the providers about any guarantees special terms or protected benefits.
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Lottie Kent: So in summary, the questions to ask, is it a defined benefit pension? Is it a defined contribution pension?
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Lottie Kent: Are there guarantees or protected rights, and are there penalties?
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Lottie Kent: If you have a defined benefit pension in the marital pot or any defined contribution pensions with guarantees. It’s highly likely and recommended that you will need a pension on divorce expert report a pension sharing report, and, to be honest, it should always be considered and then discounted. And please, please, get it done early, too. It saves so much time and prevents assumptions further down the line.
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Lottie Kent: A financial expert can work with the solicitor and PODE to make sure the financial the pension is properly understood, considered and reflected in negotiations.
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Lottie Kent: So next, cash flow show modelling helps clients and their solicitor avoid unrealistic proposals and unnecessary friction.
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Lottie Kent: Cash flow is about income and expenditure, not just today, but post divorce.
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Lottie Kent: So understanding your current and future spending is one of the most empowering things you can do during divorce. And here’s how we recommend starting to approach it.
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Lottie Kent: Number one, start with where you are now. Gather 3 months bank statements and credit card statements, highlight and categorize your spending mortgage, rent, groceries, children, subscriptions, Gardner, etc. Etc. This creates a clear picture of your current lifestyle and your essential versus desirable outgoings.
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Lottie Kent: If you’ve been the non-financial partner. This exercise is particularly empowering, and it really helps you get back in the driving seat.
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Lottie Kent: Number 2 is project forward. What is likely to change once separated, some costs will decrease, others will increase, so you might not have to cover some of your ex-partner’s expenses, but you might need to cover all of the bills alone, which is very, very likely
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Lottie Kent: childcare may change, and you may want additional support like therapy. You might need to pay for legal fees, or you might even need need something else, too. And this isn’t about penny pinching. It’s about making informed choices and removing uncertainty.
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Lottie Kent: The 3rd part is factoring in capital expenditure, big one-off costs that are often forgotten. So these might include rehousing potentially so the additional costs that need to be incorporated when you do rehouse duty, legal costs, removals.
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Lottie Kent: furniture, and appliances, especially if you’re starting afresh.
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Lottie Kent: and a new car replacing your car. And it might that might need to happen every 7 years or getting your car fixed.
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Lottie Kent: The 4th element is getting real about property costs. Use rightmove or zoopla to check what kind of property is realistic within your budget.
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Lottie Kent: Look at not just at purchase prices, but also running costs, council tax service charges, maintenance, location, eg. School catchment areas, or commute. It’s a great way to use or a great way to estimate running costs for the future is to use things like AI like Chat GPT, and say, what is the estimated cost of running a 4 bed house in a in a certain area? It will give you a good good idea.
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Lottie Kent: After this, webinar, we will send you a budget planning template as part of the follow up to make this easier. And it helps you build a realistic forward looking post budget post divorce budget and gives you the clarity you need for negotiations. If you don’t know your numbers, you don’t know what you need, and if you don’t know what you need. It’s very hard to negotiate from a place of strength. This is about building your case for yourself, for your lawyer, and for your financial future.
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Lottie Kent: Once we have what a client needs from an income and a capital perspective, we are able to model settlement scenarios or potential settlement scenarios over the top of that to illustrate what that looks like. If there’s a shortfall, what’s the consequence of that shortfall? And how do we remove it? We’ll go through a brief demo of this later. But in summary, this improves confidence and reduces anxiety for clients and supports the solicitor with grounded useful data.
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Lottie Kent: Asset division. So it’s really, really important to think about how assets function, not just what they’re worth.
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Lottie Kent: but really, how, how how it in practice, what it means about fairness versus practicality.
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Lottie Kent: as we all know, splitting assets is rarely as simple as 50 50.
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Lottie Kent: So what do we need to look at liquidity? So how quickly can the asset be accessed? Can it be sold?
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Lottie Kent: Can it be sold at all?
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Lottie Kent: Should it be seen as a bonus in the matrimonial pot? There are some things. For example, if an ex has shares in a company that he has set up and has full control over them.
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Lottie Kent: and you, as the client only have a charge over them.
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Lottie Kent: Perhaps it would be an idea to not get too attached to them, as that money may not materialize. Hence sometimes this could be seen as a as a bonus
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Lottie Kent: tax implications, capital gains, tax stamp duty. These all need to be thought of, and are very often forgotten, especially with shares or investment accounts. So ask yourself, do any of the assets have any capital gains tax liabilities.
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Lottie Kent: income potential? Does the asset generate income or not, and will that change in the future?
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Lottie Kent: The next part of this is the emotional attachment versus financial practicality.
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Lottie Kent: So the the family home, for example, shared possessions or specific assets, like a holiday home or artwork can very often carry deep emotional meaning.
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Lottie Kent: You might hear, I don’t care what it costs. I just want to keep the house.
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Lottie Kent: and clients might want to hold on to something because it symbolises stability for themselves, the children, or continuity at a time of upheaval.
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Lottie Kent: but emotional decisions, while valid, can sometimes cloud long-term judgment.
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Lottie Kent: And this is often the case when keeping the family home.
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Lottie Kent: Key questions to raise are, can you afford the mortgage and the upkeep long term?
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Lottie Kent: Will it leave? Will it leave you asset rich cash for poor, as I always say, you can’t knock off the chimney and get 50 K. In the bank. Just doesn’t work like that.
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Lottie Kent: You’d also have a lot of soot involved, too.
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Lottie Kent: And are you giving up valuable pensions or income generating assets in return.
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Lottie Kent: As we’ve already covered, pensions are often undervalued in favour of tangible things like property, yet they may be the key to long term security. So just be careful.
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Lottie Kent: Our job is to acknowledge the emotional attachment while helping clients model the long term implications of their choices
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Lottie Kent: Using cash flow forecasting, we help clients see what happens if you keep the house. What does your income look like if you give up the pension or some of the pension value. And how might this play out in 10, 20, 30 years? It’s not about ignoring the emotion. It’s about making space for it without letting it drive the settlement
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Lottie Kent: For future planning, it’s about looking forward and not unpicking the past.
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Lottie Kent: So when clients are in the thick of divorce, they’re often stuck in the here and the now reacting to immediate stress, emotional strain and urgent decisions. And that’s completely normal.
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Lottie Kent: Our job is to help them lift their head, look ahead, and start building a picture of the life they want after divorce. So things to think about, retirement goals. When do they want working. What does a comfortable retirement mean to them?
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Lottie Kent: Will they be reliant on a pension? Rental income or investments.
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Lottie Kent: work plans? Are they returning to work, changing careers?
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Lottie Kent: Or what’s their income? Likely income trajectory over the next 10 to 15 years.
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Lottie Kent: Their lifestyle needs. What kind of home do they want? Do they want to travel, help the children through university
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Lottie Kent: start afresh in your new area and the Life Vision post divorce. Who do they want to be? How do they want to live? And I know Claire will cover much more of this in a few minutes.
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Lottie Kent: This isn’t just financial. It’s about anchoring decisions in values and goals and cash flow modelling, lets us take those hopes, needs, and assumptions and turn them into something visual and practical.
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Lottie Kent: So we model different settlement scenario options to show how long money lasts, whether income needs are met, can they afford to retire as planned?
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Lottie Kent: The income, the impact of keeping the house versus accessing or taking some of the pension side of things. And what happens if they receive spousal maintenance for a fixed period versus they don’t at all.
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Lottie Kent: So why it helps. For the client, it reduces fear and paralysis by replacing what ifs, with what now?
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Lottie Kent: It helps them remove from anxiety to action, and helps build confidence that their choices are rooted in facts, not fear or emotion.
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Lottie Kent: From a solicitor point of view it strengthens instructions, it avoids wasting wasted time going back and forth on proposals that don’t meet long term goals.
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Lottie Kent: and it needs to clean up more purposeful negotiations, often saving legal time in the long run.
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Lottie Kent: This isn’t about reacting to the chaos of now, it’s about stepping into the future
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Lottie Kent: you want with clarity, confidence, and control.
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Lottie Kent: So in a nutshell, financial expert makes the solicitor’s job easier by removing guesswork, reducing reactivity and supporting the client’s confidence. We’re not duplicating work. We are complementing it.
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Lottie Kent: And in in a nutshell, we are reducing the overwhelm, offering structure and creating momentum and helping clients make decisions based on facts and help Solicitors move through cases more efficiently and collaboratively
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Lottie Kent: so from a legal perspective, it’s saving time and improving client outcomes. Clients are better briefed, more realistic and more cooperative
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Lottie Kent: from a client perspective, you feel more in control. You know your numbers, and you make decisions from a place of clarity.
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Lottie Kent: So, as part of the follow up, we will send you not only the post budget planning sorry the post divorce planning, but also the divorce, financial clarity checklist, too, to help you prepare everything you need to do
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Lottie Kent: so now over to Claire. So Claire Macklin is a leading divorce coach and author of Breakup from crisis confidence known for her calm strategic support, and for working alongside legal and financial professionals to help clients navigate divorce with dignity.
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Lottie Kent: So over to you, Claire, would you like your next slide?
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Lottie Kent: Yes, please.
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Claire Macklin: Thanks very much, Lottie. So yeah, as Lottie just said, I’ll just tell you a bit more. I offer bespoke one-to-one coaching tailored to each client. I regularly work alongside financial advisors and solicitors to offer holistic support.
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Claire Macklin: to ensure that clients can navigate divorce with dignity, with clarity and self-respect, and that they can rebuild their lives afterwards with intention, purpose, and peace.
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Claire Macklin: Next slide, please, Lottie.
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Claire Macklin: so divorce can hit like a train crash. It can be sudden, it can be shattering, it can be disorienting, and even if you’ve chosen it, you can feel like your whole life has kind of fallen off its rails.
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Claire Macklin: It’s one of the most traumatic life events a person can go through
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Claire Macklin: because it’s not just the end of a relationship it’s the collapse of the future. You thought you had tangled up with intense emotions an alien legal process, major financial unravelling and concern for your children’s wellbeing. And all of this comes at the exact moment that your brain feels like it’s under siege.
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Claire Macklin: So emotional, overwhelm, overwhelm can reduce clients ability to process and retain information by up to 70%
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Claire Macklin: for many. Their productivity at work also drops often by around 40%.
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Claire Macklin: And you’re being asked to make life shaping decisions at a time when your cognitive capacity is at its lowest.
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Claire Macklin: So it’s no wonder that many clients feel paralysed, flooded, unable to think clearly, and it’s no wonder that the legal professionals working with them often find themselves absorbing some of that emotional fallout, trying to hold space for their clients, fear, distress, and indecision, and that often stretches far beyond the legal brief.
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Claire Macklin: Next slide, please, Lottie.
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Claire Macklin: The emotional journey through divorce is different for everybody. It’s not linear, it’s really messy. It’s unpredictable. And it’s deeply personal.
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Claire Macklin: So for many, the 1st few months can feel like a fog. And you’re grieving, not just the end of a relationship, but the loss of a shared future, your identity, perhaps, as a partner, your home often connections with your extended family as well. So it’s not just one loss. It’s many, and there’s a grieving process to go through.
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Claire Macklin: Many people start in denial, especially if the decision wasn’t theirs, and the brain is protecting you at this point by numbing you from the reality. You might think you know this isn’t happening, or I’m going to wake up tomorrow morning, and everything’s going to be okay again, but it never is, and it’s very acute and overwhelming.
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Claire Macklin: Another stage is anger, and anger is a bit like an iceberg. I always think it masks other emotions, pain, fear, guilt, betrayal, and it might be directed at your ex-partner.
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Claire Macklin: It might be directed internally yourself. It might be directed even at your lawyer.
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Claire Macklin: and anger can bring out a burst of energy, but it can also lead you to do things that you later regret, and if you hold on to it. It can keep you emotionally tied to the past.
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Claire Macklin: Then, in bargaining we kind of replay what we perhaps could have done differently, or we try and undo what’s happening. If only I’d been! I remember thinking this myself. If only I’d been a better wife, this wouldn’t be happening to me.
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Claire Macklin: or if only he would behave differently. Maybe we’d still be together.
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Claire Macklin: This is your mind’s attempt to take back control to avoid feeling helpless.
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Claire Macklin: and it can mean that clients appear to make a decision and then change their minds.
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Claire Macklin: or they feel stuck and paralyzed, and they can’t make decisions at all.
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Claire Macklin: Depression often follows as the reality sets in, and that can be really heavy, you know. Maybe you struggle to get out of bed. Maybe you sense that everything just feels really grey, and you feel really numb.
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Claire Macklin: This phase is hard, but it’s also really normal, and it doesn’t mean that it will last forever.
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Claire Macklin: Acceptance is when you begin to live with the reality. It isn’t. I’m really happy that’s happened. It’s I can live with that this has happened. You may not like what happened, but you’re no longer resisting it, and you can start to imagine a future again. You’ve got a bit more hope and motivation.
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Claire Macklin: And then eventually many people reach a stage of meaning. So they find ways to learn to grow and use their experience, to shape the life that they have ahead, to change, how they show up in relationships or support others.
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Claire Macklin: Importantly, both people in a couple are likely to be in completely different places on this journey.
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Claire Macklin: and their children will also be on their own path as well, and that complication can make communication and co-parenting even more complex.
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Claire Macklin: So being aware of this journey really helps to normalise the emotional rollercoaster for clients so that they don’t feel so alone. They don’t feel so isolated in their feelings.
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Claire Macklin: knowing that this is a process that they’re not alone in how they feel can be a really comforting and powerful thing.
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Claire Macklin: And for solicitors it can give you context for what might seem to be very inconsistent decisions. It means you can also start to take into account things like how to word your letters, when to send information across to your client when to refer, perhaps, to other professionals.
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Claire Macklin: and showing your clients that you’re aware of this journey, will help build trust with them and rapport and mean that they feel heard, which is so important.
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Claire Macklin: Next slide, please, Lottie.
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Claire Macklin: Fear is also a huge part of divorce, and Lottie spoke about this, too. There are so many fears, fear of the unknown, fear of the future, and fear of every email that pings in fear of being alone, fear of how your ex might behave. Fear of your finances, fear about the legal process, fear about the impact on your children. I could go on.
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Claire Macklin: It’s no wonder that people feel really overwhelmed, and our brains are hardwired to keep spotting these threats. That’s how we’ve survived for thousands of years. We sense danger. Our emotional brain takes over and our rational thinking brain gets pushed to the side.
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Claire Macklin: That’s really incredibly useful. When you’re faced with a growling dog or a runaway train.
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Claire Macklin: you don’t want to stand there debating your options. At that point you want to react quickly.
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Claire Macklin: and in those moments your body releases adrenaline and cortisol, and your heart rate rises, you get ready to fight flight, freeze, or flop.
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Claire Macklin: Once the danger has passed, the adrenaline and cortisol reduce, and normality can return.
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Claire Macklin: But in divorce the danger is more complex.
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Claire Macklin: It might be an angry message from your ex, a solicitor’s letter. You weren’t expecting
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Claire Macklin: fear of what your life might look like in a year’s time, and because those threats never fully go away, your system stays on high, alert all the time, which is exhausting, and leaves you feeling consciously, constantly anxious, reactive or shut down.
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Claire Macklin: And when that emotional brain is in charge, we typically respond in one of these 4 ways we fight. So we argue, we blame, we defend, we lash out.
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Claire Macklin: or we go into flight, and we avoid, we withdraw, we ignore the problem, we refuse to engage in the process.
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Claire Macklin: or we freeze, we feel stuck, foggy, overwhelmed, we can’t concentrate, we go blank in meetings.
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Claire Macklin: or we flop, and we give in. We say yes to anything. We hand over our power in order for an easy life, and I’m sure that those watching you’ve seen all of those in action during the divorce process.
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Claire Macklin: and the problem is that these responses can lead to decisions that are not in your best interests.
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Claire Macklin: and they may cost your clients, emotionally and financially, for years to come.
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Claire Macklin: So that’s why understanding, fear and how your brain and body respond to that stress is so important.
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Claire Macklin: When you recognise what’s happening, you can start to develop strategies, to interrupt the cycle.
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Claire Macklin: For clients. Just being aware of this can be really empowering because it provides a language for their feelings and their instinctive behaviours.
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Claire Macklin: Now you can’t change anything unless you’re aware of it. So this awareness is always the starting point for change.
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Claire Macklin: When fear is driving the process, it becomes much harder to make clear, well-informed decisions.
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Claire Macklin: When clients are supported emotionally, they can feel calmer, more in control, and the whole process can become more constructive and less costly on every level
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Claire Macklin: next slide, please.
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Claire Macklin: So I’m just going to share a couple of strategies I use with clients to help them stay grounded in those moments when those emotions are are really running high.
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Claire Macklin: 1st one is your breath, and it’s the 1st resource to call on always. It’s free. It’s always with you. You can’t forget to take it, and it has a huge impact, and breathing is the best way to start, to feel calm and start to interrupt your thoughts. And actually, this is really useful for the lawyers listening as well, you know, when you’re when you’re faced with a client who’s very distressed. Take a deep breath yourself to calm yourself and ground yourself before you start to help them.
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Claire Macklin: When you’re stressed or anxious. Breathing tends to be very slow and very rapid.
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Claire Macklin: So by consciously controlling your breath, you can influence your emotional state.
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Claire Macklin: which activates your parasympathetic nervous system and has a really calming effect on your brain and your body. It brings oxygen back to your logical brain, so that you can actually start to think again.
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Claire Macklin: The way that I teach most of my clients is to start box breathing because it’s so simple. And so you breathe in and count to 4,
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Claire Macklin: and then you hold for 4,
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Claire Macklin: and then you breathe out, and you hold and and count to 4 again.
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Claire Macklin: and then you hold for 4.
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Claire Macklin: You can also visualize it going around in the square.
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Claire Macklin: If you do that, just notice how you feel. I’m just talking that through. I can feel my heart rate has slowed down. I feel calmer. My voice is lower, and I’m talking more slowly.
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Claire Macklin: The real beauty of it as well is that you can’t count and think spiralling thoughts at the same time, because your counting is interrupting those thoughts, so it gives your brain a moment.
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Claire Macklin: So start practicing this. Now make it habit to breathe before you say anything?
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Claire Macklin: And for the professionals watching, this is a simple strategy you can use in sessions with your clients when you see their anxiety rising. Just take a minute to both. Breathe together
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Claire Macklin: next slide, please, Lottie.
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Lottie Kent: I’m too busy breathing here Claire, to relaxed.
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Claire Macklin: The next thing is to acknowledge and identify what it is that you’re feeling. So all clients will respond to divorce differently, psychologically, physically, and their emotions can be really intense, overwhelming, and also often contradictory. So it’s quite possible to feel relief and sadness at the same time, or anger and disappointment alongside. Love
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Claire Macklin: and your emotions are your body’s way of communicating with you as subconscious signals about what matters to you, and they can be really useful messengers.
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Claire Macklin: but they also, as we’ve just seen, can hijack your logical brain and trigger that fight flight, freeze response which isn’t helpful. So some tools that you can take away to manage that emotional intensity.
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Claire Macklin: 1st of all, name what it is that you’re feeling, and I use this chart quite a lot with my clients to help them identify the exact feeling that it is. You know. What is it that’s underneath that anger that you’re feeling? Are you feeling humiliated, or are you feeling jealous, or are you feeling frustrated, for example.
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Claire Macklin: just identifying what it is that you’re feeling can help reduce those feelings, grip over you
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Claire Macklin: and then change how you’re speaking about it. So instead of saying, I am sad.
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Claire Macklin: try, I’m feeling sad right now.
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Claire Macklin: This creates a little bit of distance between you and the feeling, and it also reminds you that it isn’t you
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Claire Macklin: that it was temporary, and that it will pass
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Claire Macklin: and then find safe ways to express those feelings so I like to stand up and literally shake them out like this, and other people perhaps like to journal or talk it out with a trusted friend or therapist.
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Claire Macklin: And I also like to teach my clients how to surf the wave, so your emotions rise and fall like waves in the sea.
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Claire Macklin: And so, if you imagine you’re a surfer on your board, instead of trying to fight the wave that’s coming towards you, turn your board, name the wave, ride the wave. Those waves always always land on the beach.
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Claire Macklin: and they come and they go. They land on the beach, and then you can sit on the beach and imagine the sun on your back and warm through once the emotion has has died down again.
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Claire Macklin: and lastly, practice gratitude, and this is sometimes counterintuitive, but practice, gratitude. Look for just 3 small things every day that you’re grateful for, or proud of, or that made you smile, however small they are, because this can really help reset your emotional baseline and start you thinking and feeling intentionally
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Claire Macklin: so for clients. Awareness of your feelings gives you a lot more choice over how you respond. It helps you understand your internal dialogue, and improves your communication.
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Claire Macklin: And for solicitors addressing your clients, emotions early
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Claire Macklin: before conflict escalates, or communication completely breaks down, will make those clients much easier to support, because they can articulate their needs, give more consistent instructions, and engage in constructive conversations with you.
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Claire Macklin: Next slide, please.
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Claire Macklin: and when you’re going through a divorce, it’s so easy to focus on everything that’s outside your control, especially your ex’s behaviour. You might, you know. Why can’t they just understand this? If only they would stop doing that.
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Claire Macklin: And we can waste huge amounts of energy trying to control the very thing. We can’t other people.
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Claire Macklin: So when you spend your energy focusing on what they’re doing, what they’re saying, how you can get them to understand your perspective. You’re in this yellow zone of frustration around the outside. You’re giving your power away.
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Claire Macklin: So I encourage my clients to step back into the blue zone in the middle of the blue zone of power. So when you stand in that zone, you have choice.
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Claire Macklin: and even simple actions can help restore that sense of agency
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Claire Macklin: changing, how you start and end your day moving some furniture around and wearing clothes that make you feel better, taking a little bit of exercise, choosing when you look at your emails, and when it comes to the big stuff like how you parent on your time.
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Claire Macklin: how you respond to a very challenging ex. Remember, you get to choose when, how, or even whether you respond. Discretionary engagement. I call that
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Claire Macklin: you have control over those things.
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Claire Macklin: and for clients that shift is powerful, it reinforces what they can do, and builds a sense of agency.
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Claire Macklin: And for your lawyer, for lawyers it means that your clients are more able to see choices. They can take ownership of their decisions, and ultimately that saves time, cost, and energy for everybody
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Claire Macklin: next slide, please.
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Claire Macklin: So one of the most empowering things to remember and that you can always control is how you show up and how you steer your ship. So some questions to ask.
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Claire Macklin: who do I want to be in this separation?
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Claire Macklin: How do I want to show up?
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Claire Macklin: How do I want to feel when I look back in 5 years, time, or 10 years time.
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Claire Macklin: And what do I want my relationship with my ex to look like in a year’s time? 5 years time, and then you can hold that vision at the front of your mind and use it as a compass.
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Claire Macklin: I’m asking yourself, Will, what I’m about to do move me closer or further away from the kind of future I want to create.
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Claire Macklin: and asking those sorts of questions early on in the process really supports people to be reflective right from the start, because you might not feel in control very much. But you absolutely do get to steer your own ship
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Claire Macklin: next slide, please, Lottie.
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Claire Macklin: So this journey is like a staircase. When you’re at the start, you can’t see the top. Take it one step at a time. Small intentional actions every day build real momentum, and over time add up to big change. So every day, ask yourself, what’s 1 small step I could take today.
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Claire Macklin: and as professionals, you can really help your clients with this by breaking your advice down, ensuring people have the right support in their team, choosing the words you use carefully and slowing your pace if needed, because for many clients this is a totally alien process, and it’s utterly overwhelming.
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Claire Macklin: And then last slide, please, Lottie.
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Claire Macklin: So when clients are taking small steps, guided by clear intention, they start to shape, not just how they get through divorce, the kind of life they’re stepping into next.
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Claire Macklin: And this is the point, as Lottie highlighted earlier, where our work really dovetail dovetails just beautifully, because together we can provide the financial clarity and emotional stability to help clients land safely and step into their future with intention and purpose.
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Claire Macklin: So ultimately we all want the same for our clients. We want people to be able to navigate through with dignity, clarity, a clear plan for their future. And together. That’s what we can do as a team.
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Claire Macklin: Thank you, Lottie, back to you.
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Lottie Kent: Thank you very much, Claire. That was, excuse me, that was brilliant, and I don’t know about everybody else, but I instantly feel more more Zen and more calm, and it brings us very nicely on to our joint section. So I suppose, working as a divorce team. So having a legal, professional, financial, professional, and an emotional expert working with you during your working with you during your divorce is what I call a win, win, win.
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Lottie Kent: It empowers the client, and it supports the legal process.
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Lottie Kent: So when clients come into legal meetings prepared with realistic expectations and a clear understanding of their finances, it transforms the process, there’s less back and forth. There’s fewer delays, and it’s a smoother path to resolution.
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Lottie Kent: And, as I always say, this is where I feel the magic happens.
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Lottie Kent: and clients are just so much better briefed, which means there’s fewer U-turns and the solicitor spends more time, sorry, less time clarifying financial confusion. And the thing is that settlements progress faster because expectations are grounded in logic and data.
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Lottie Kent: So what we’re going to do now is we’re going to walk through a live demo of a client called Amelia Wright. Now, please bear with me 2 seconds. I just have to do a slight technical switch of slides and screens. So I’m going to stop sharing and be back with you in 2 seconds.
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Lottie Kent: The thing with the live demo is it locks you out, so bear with me. I’m just going to log back in again.
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Lottie Kent: Fabulous, Claire, can you see my screen? Just checking that you can see?
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Claire Macklin: Yeah.
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Lottie Kent: Brilliant. So this is basically a client, Amelia Wright. And she was 52. She is 52.
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Lottie Kent: She has 2 children, Connie and Fred, and she’s currently working, earning 30,000 a year.
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Lottie Kent: Her property. The family home is worth 1.2 million.
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Lottie Kent: She has a small pension through work worth 35,000, and she has a full. She has full state pension when she gets to state pension age
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Lottie Kent: her outgoings at the moment while the children are at home are 39,000 a year.
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Lottie Kent: and they will reduce when her youngest is 23 to 27,600.
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Lottie Kent: She, of course, well, she’s adamant she wants to stay in the family home, so if she’s going to do that, she needs to buy her ex-husband out of the family home.
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Lottie Kent: and half of that value is 600,000.
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Lottie Kent: So this planning includes absolutely everything, inflation, savings, growth, investment, growth, fees, taxation, everything.
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Lottie Kent: So if I show you what this looks like, and this is before we start modelling any potential settlement scenarios over the top.
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Lottie Kent: So her age, Amelia’s age is along the bottom. Here. Each column here is a year in her life.
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Lottie Kent: This black line across the top is her total need in any given year.
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Lottie Kent: Anything in blue is money coming in, and anything in red is shortfall
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Lottie Kent: so present, without any modelling over the top or any settlement scenarios over the top we can see there’s a clear capital need in order to buy her ex out of the family home.
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Lottie Kent: There’s an income need until she while she is working, because her income is not covering all of her expenses, and there’s also an income need in retirement.
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Lottie Kent: So what do we do from here?
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Lottie Kent: It was proposed that if she were to receive 400,000 of capital from the settlement, and also 408,000 as a pension share.
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Lottie Kent: what would that look like. So we modelled this for her.
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Lottie Kent: and, as you can see here when it decides to load
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Lottie Kent: again, her age is along the bottom. Here you can see the money here coming in from the capital, from from the settlement, that 400,000 there coming in, and because she has got the 408,000 as a pension share. She now has some income in retirement, and there’s a shortfall that starts at age 78.
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Lottie Kent: So the thing is, though we’ve got an issue here, she can’t afford to buy him out with that settlement.
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Lottie Kent: and she also can’t afford to maintain her standard of living in the present moment. But there is also further down the line
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Lottie Kent: a retirement issue, too.
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Lottie Kent: So, because she was so adamant about staying in the family home.
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Lottie Kent: there was an alternative proposal that was given to her.
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Lottie Kent: If she were to receive 700,000 of capital from the settlement.
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Lottie Kent: stay in the family home and reduce her pension share from 408 to 108,000. Then you can see now she’s able to stay in the family home perfect. She’s able to buy her ex out, and she can stay in the family home.
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Lottie Kent: However, we still have a bit of a problem, because there is still a shortfall until she reaches retirement. Also there’s a significant shortfall in retirement as well, because she has reduced the amount of pension share significantly.
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Lottie Kent: And this is where we got to a little bit of a sticking point because she was adamant. She wanted to stay in the family home.
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Lottie Kent: but from a financial and a legal perspective. It just wasn’t possible. So what can we do about it? So that’s where we got Claire involved. And Claire came to to her and about her options that were available to her.
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Claire Macklin: Hmm.
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Lottie Kent: So over to you, Claire.
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Claire Macklin: Thank you. So this is one of the most common and most emotionally charged questions that often comes up. You know the home represents much more than just bricks and mortar. It’s where your children grew up. Maybe it’s the only place you’ve ever lived. It holds lots of memories. Perhaps it’s been the only thing that’s been stable for you over this period of time. So it makes sense that Amelia would want to say.
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Claire Macklin: Underneath this decision, there’s so much fear.
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Claire Macklin: There’s a fear that perhaps asking for a fair share of pension or savings somehow makes you greedy, or that you’ll be seen as a gold digger that you don’t deserve it, and I think a lot of that’s fueled by articles we see in the press.
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Claire Macklin: There’s a fear, perhaps, and I see this in my clients all the time. There’s a fear that I’ll be judged for even asking the question and bringing it up as though somehow wanting that financial security is something to be ashamed of, and when you combine that with the fear that this will somehow damage the children, that everybody will be unhappy that everybody will be miserable. You can see why Amelia is so determined that she wants to stay in the family home.
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Claire Macklin: and my role is to help Amelia explore all of this, to look at the emotional landscape and to bring in the practical facts, so that whatever decision she makes, it’s really informed and fully conscious.
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Claire Macklin: So 1st of all, we talk about her feelings. And what does the home represent to her? What would it mean to let it go, and what part of her is trying to hold on to it? And what is that part of her afraid of? And then we would face those fears
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Claire Macklin: for those clients who are afraid, perhaps, of opening up discussion about pensions. I might also work with them to prepare for those conversations, to build their belief in themselves, and to
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Claire Macklin: to build their belief that they know that they deserve to prioritise themselves in this way.
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Claire Macklin: So I would always get them to get financial clarity because knowledge is power, and that’s where Lottie comes in.
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Claire Macklin: But I’d also work with my client and with Amelia to challenge the kind of what ifs that are spiralling, perhaps, in her mind, and I often take my clients on a dual journey kind of a kinaesthetic journey, so we will explore both paths.
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Claire Macklin: What if I keep the house and give up the pension? What does that look like? And I’ll get them to step into the future in a year’s time. What does that look like? What does it feel like in 5 years? Time, in 10 years time.
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Claire Macklin: and then we’ll walk the other path. What if I share the pension? And we do sell the house? What does that look and feel like? And we compare what the gains and losses are because Amelia is very focused on what she potentially is losing. And there may be things that she actually realises she’s gaining by taking the other route.
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Claire Macklin: and then we look ahead and I’ll ask her questions, you know, like, what would future you say about the decision you’re likely to make?
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Claire Macklin: Is she going to look back and think you made that decision out of fear or out of strength?
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Claire Macklin: And many of my clients have come through so much just to get to this point. So I really encourage them also to use what I call their wow brain to remind themselves of what they’ve already done. you know, what have you overcome in the last 6 months that you were really scared of, and that you never imagined you could.
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Claire Macklin: What hard things have you already faced and got through. And what strengths did you draw on? Courage, resilience, resourcefulness, self-compassion, perhaps. And how could you use them now? In this context?
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Claire Macklin: Essentially. Whatever decision Amelia makes, it doesn’t have to be rushed or reactive. She can pause. She can gather all the information she needs. She can look at the numbers and the emotions side by side, and and choose the future. That’s right for her. And then, once we’ve got her in a position where she’s ready to go back to Lottie. Then I will send her back to you, Lottie.
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Lottie Kent: Fine. So thank you very much, Claire. So after Claire has worked her magic and talked Amelia through all these options.
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Lottie Kent: Amelia was then of the opinion that she actually wanted a fresh start in a slightly new area, and this meant that she was able to find a home that was suitable for hers and her children’s needs, and it would cost her 600,000 pounds. So what does this look like?
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Lottie Kent: So if she were to downsize or buy something of 600,000. Sell the family home. Of course she would split the equity from the family home 50 50, so she would get 600,000 pounds. From that she would then get the original post settlement of the 400,000 from the capital, and also the 408,000 from pension. Now, as we can now see
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Lottie Kent: that changes things significantly, she is now able to maintain her desired standard or her standard of living until the age of 80.
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Lottie Kent: Now, of course, there is still a slight shortfall at age 80. However, there’s various things that we could do to illustrate to her. What would it look like? If she, how much would would she have to reduce her retirement spending, for example, by in order to remove that shortfall, but the other option is, she could also downsize so she would have to reduce it to 22,461 a year to remove that shortfall
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Lottie Kent: or the other option is, she could downsize again at age 80, to something of 400,000, when she doesn’t need the same amount of space.
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Lottie Kent: and, as you can see here, then, she has completely removed that shortfall.
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Lottie Kent: So the thing is, is, as you can see, this provides clients with not only the emotional tools but the financial knowledge to make the right decisions for her and her children’s future.
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Lottie Kent: And that teamed up up approach really really helps, especially when making big decisions about the future. So I’m now just going to jump back on to the slides. I’m just gonna stop sharing for a second
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Lottie Kent: Bear with me there. So before we jump into questions, so we both, both Claire and I really hope that this has been really really helpful, and has provided you with some tangible takeaways that you can use in your either your everyday work, and also as a client to help you navigate through the challenging challenges that divorce presents
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Lottie Kent: before we do jump into questions. We would absolutely love your feedback. So so if you could use our epically created QR code and send us your feedback. That would be fantastic. And also, please please do mention any other topics that you would like to see covered in future webinars, too. That would be very much appreciated.
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Lottie Kent: So finally, then, I will, have we got any questions
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Lottie Kent: at all? I think we might. I’m just going to stop sharing a second. I think we might have some in the box. Let me just have a look.
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Lottie Kent: So some of them are technical ones.
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Lottie Kent: so one question here that has come in, and I think this for more for you, Claire, is, and taking control is unfortunately at the other side’s expense. How can you help a client to take
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Lottie Kent: some control with that?
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Lottie Kent: If there’s enough there for you to answer that.
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Claire Macklin: I think so. So. What I would say is, my advice to my clients is really about taking control of themselves, not exerting control over their ex partner. So I would always temper that control with compassion. For example, for me, what I’m talking about, really, with that control is having boundaries yourself and some of those boundaries will be internal boundaries. So I remember sitting with a client once
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Claire Macklin: and talking through how he wanted to communicate to his ex-wife in emails and face to face. And actually the boundaries were internal ones. He wanted to be polite. He wanted to be civilized, he wanted to act within his own integrity and as far as possible to be kind. So a lot of the control things I’m talking about, they’re very inward focused. They are focused on the client rather than focused on
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Claire Macklin: controlling the other person. I’m not sure whether that was and where the question was aimed at, but I hope that makes sense.
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Lottie Kent: Thank you very much, Claire. So one that has come, I suppose, and probably directed at me. But why do you need a financial planner if the solicitor is already helping with settlement negotiations so, and to be completely honest with you, this is a really really common question that comes up.
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Lottie Kent: So solicitors advise on what’s legally fair.
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Lottie Kent: But I suppose a financial experts role is to show whether the actual proposed settlement bit like we. What we’ve done today actually meets your financial needs both now and in the future. So, for example, a 50 50 split might sound fair on paper. But if it leaves one person unable to afford their retirement, for example, or a suitable home. Then
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Lottie Kent: that’s not a a fair, fair settlement, so I suppose it’s working together to make sure that it’s not just fair, but it’s but it’s workable.
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Lottie Kent: So I think I’ve got another one for you, Claire. Here actually,
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Lottie Kent: So how do you work alongside? And a bit similar to that one that I’ve just read out for towards myself. So how do you work alongside legal professionals without our roles becoming blurred.
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Claire Macklin: It’s a really good question. So I although I’m an ex, I’m a former lawyer. I wasn’t a family lawyer as an insolvency lawyer, so I don’t give legal advice. I’m here to support the person, not manage the legal process at all. So my role really is helping clients regulate their emotions, build clarity.
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Claire Macklin: make informed decisions. I can help them understand your advice, and I can also help them think about what questions they might need to ask next, and
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Claire Macklin: in order to to understand your advice, and what perhaps the next steps might be, because ultimately I absolutely respect the professional boundaries between us. You know. So my role really is to bolster your role and Lotties as well. So the 3 of us, it’s a bit like somebody once compared it to me once as being like a stool, a three-legged stool.
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Claire Macklin: and if you take away one of the legs, the leg of law, the leg of emotions, and the financial leg. The stall falls over.
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Claire Macklin: So our roles are a bit like almost like a crossing over Venn diagram, even if you like. We all have our separate roles, and we support each other, and I think this works best when we communicate with each other as well throughout a case, so rather than us, each acting in our own separate little silos, and the client. Then, having to explain everything 3 times, I think it works best when we all communicate with each other. And actually, we see each other as a team.
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Claire Macklin: because we can support each other as well as supporting the client. And I think that’s really important. So yeah, if you, if you’re concerned that you know, I’d ever overstep the mark in terms of giving any legal advice, absolutely not.
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Lottie Kent: And that’s exactly the same with myself, it’s, we, I’m a financial expert, not a legal one. So, we would always need that legal expertise included, too. Yeah.
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Claire Macklin: Oh, just do some sorry. Just one
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Claire Macklin: point on that. We would, of course, check with the clients that that they were happy. You know that they consented to us communicating with each other. Of course that didn’t mention that kind of goes without being said I suppose.
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Lottie Kent: Very good point there, Claire, thank you for clarifying, and one final one just before we wrap up, and this I don’t know whether I can do in a minute. Could you explain the PODE report a bit more? Does it provide valuation of just pensions? Does it include sips? Does it propose how the pension should be shared divided. So a PODE report is essentially includes all the pensions that are within the marital pot.
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Lottie Kent: and basically what it does is determine how the pension report how the pension should be divided to ensure either equality of income in retirement or equality of capital. So it just means that you’re you’re just getting
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Lottie Kent: an expert, a single joint expert, because both parties, both sides, would appoint one expert to basically determine how the pensions should be shared in a fair manner, and there can be various. There’s obviously various assumptions made, and there’s lots of different questions that you can ask a PODE or a pension on divorce expert. But what I would say is, simplicity is key.
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Lottie Kent: You don’t want to end up with an overcomplicated report so often. The fewer scenarios, and the fewer questions you ask them provides a better, more concise.
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Lottie Kent: robust report.
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Lottie Kent: So I think that’s all we’ve got time for today. Thank you so so much to everybody for joining. And I will send the follow up email tomorrow, and that will include a recording and the takeaways that we’ve mentioned today I’ve mentioned mine. Claire has a couple as well that that will be sent as well.
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Lottie Kent: and if you have any, follow ups or any queries, then please do contact either Claire or myself. Claire will be copied into the email, too, so you will have her details, and we very much look forward to seeing you again soon.
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Claire Macklin: Thank you very much.
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Lottie Kent: Bye, everybody! Thank you.
